Siman - Pesachim Daf 17
- Chaggai testing the Kohanim
Chaggai tested the Kohanim who were returning from Bavel in their proficiency in the halachos of tumah and taharah, which they had not practiced since there were no kodshim that needed to be guarded from tumah. He asked them, in a nutshell, whether kodesh can become a revii and they answered that it cannot. Rav said they erred, and Shmuel said they did not. Shmuel understood the question differently, that Chaggai had asked whether kodesh can become a chamishi, which it cannot.
Rav’s opinion is challenged based another time when Chaggai asked them a similar question whether kodshim can become a revii, but this time where the source of tumah is a person who is tamei from a meis, instead of the source of tumah being a sheretz, which was the first question, and they answered the question correctly that it is tamei. It must be therefore, that the first question was about a chamishi, like Shmuel understood. The Gemara gives two answers. Rav Nachman said in the name of Rabbah bar Avuha, בקיאין הן בטומאת מת ואין בקיאין בטומאת שרץ - They were knowledgeable in the halachos of tumas meis but not in the halachos of tumas sheretz, to know that it would make kodesh a revii. Ravina answered that in the second question, Chaggai was asking about the kodesh becoming a shelishi level of tumah, which they were familiar with.
- משקי בית מטבחיא או בי מדבחיא
There is a machlokes regarding which mashkin in the Beis Hamikdash Yosef ben Yoezer was testifying to. Rav said, משקי בית מטבחיא – the mashkin of the butchering place, referring to blood and water, and Levi said, משקי בי מדבחיא – the mashkin of the mizbeyach, referring to all the mashkin that are offered, such as blood, water, wine and oil.
A Baraisa was brought in accordance with Levi that taught that, משקי בית מדבחיא שנטמאו בפנים והוציאן לחוץ טהורין – the mashkin of the mizbeyach that became tamei inside the azarah (the Temple courtyard) and someone took them out, they are tahor. Rashi explains that they cannot be metamei other things just like they could not while they were within the azarah. The reason is that since they were considered mashkin of the mizbeyach at the time of their becoming tamei, and therefore not able to be metamei others, they retain that status even after going out of the Beis Hamikdash. However, they themselves become tamei, since as the Gemara clarified earlier, that Levi holds that mashkin of the mizbeyach can become tamei. We see that this Baraisa is like the reading of Levi, as it discusses the leniency of Yosef ben Yoezer in regards to the mashkin of the mizbeyach. The Gemara then brings a Baraisa that supports Rav’s version of Yosef ben Yoezer’s testimony.
- Rebbe Yehudah retracted and held tumas mashkin is a d’Rabbanon
In a Baraisa on Daf 16a, Rebbe Yehudah said that anything that might have been touched by tumas mashkin is tamei. The Gemara asks if in fact Rebbe Yehudah holds that tumas mashkin can be metamei keilim mid’Oraysa, based on a Mishnah that stated that keilim that became tamei in the interior, the exterior too is tamei, but if the exterior became tamei the interior is not tamei. Rebbe Yehudah qualified the ruling and said that this only applied if they became tamei through tumas mashkin, but if they were tamei through a sheretz, then regardless of where the sheretz touched, the kli is tamei. If Rebbe Yehudah held that tumas mashkin is d’Oraysa, it should have the same din as the sheretz? Rav Yehudah said in the name of Shmuel, חזר ביה רבי יהודה – Rebbe Yehudah retracted his ruling and held that tumas mashkin is only a d’Rabbanon.
