Resources for Chagigah daf 22

מראה מקומות

1.     The גמרא says that a סל וגרגותני can be נטבל for קודש even with כלים inside and we are not worried about the issue of שפופרת הנוד. The question is why not. This is an important מחלוקת ראשונים. The רבינו חננאל and מאירי learn like the simple reading of the גמרא which is there is no need to make a גזרה since there is no סל וגרגותני in the world where the mouth of it is less than a שפופרת הנוד. The תוספות רי"ד learns a similar פּשט which is that there is no need to be גוזר by baskets since baskets are the same size width at their bottom and top. We are only גוזר by items that get thinner as they get closer to the top. According to that, the items allowed are a lot more than just baskets. It should include even cups and the like. The ר"ש in מקוואות פּרק ו משנה ה in ד"ה שק says another fascinating פּשט. He says the reason we don’t make a גזרה by baskets is because since baskets can’t hold water themselves and have water running through them, they are a חיבור to the מי מקוה even if they don’t have a שפופרת הנוד opening at the top (even though the גמרא seems to say no such סל exists, he understands that the גמרא means that no issue of שפופרת הנוד exists, but there are baskets that have a narrow opening). He proves his point from the fact that the גמרא says later that if the סל וגרגותני are dividing a מקוה, the מקוה would not be good (even though there are holes in theסל ), but if you just be טובל a כלי בתוך כלי, the טבילה would work, presumably because there are holes in the סל. The truth is the ר"ש’s הלכה  would seem to be an explicit משנה. The משנה says that if you are טובל a שק וקופּה (items with holes in them) in an ocean, the טבילה works even if there is no שפופרת הנוד. The רמב"ם here has a unique שיטה. The רמב"ם in הלכות מקוואות, פּרק וּ הלּ ח paskens like that משנה in מקוואות that you can be טובל in a שק וקופּה yet in הלכות אבות הטומאה, פּרק י"ב הלּ א he does not seem to allow using a סל וגרגותני by קודש. See the שיח יצחק who explains that the רמב"ם felt that there really is a גזרה to not be טובל in a סל וגרגותני since an עם הארץ will see it and think that you can even be טובל in a כלי that doesn’t have a שפופרת הנוד. The גמרא that said that רבא did not make a גזרה by a סל וגרגותני was before the גמרא came on to the issue of an עם הארץ seeing which we say later in the גמרא. The משנה in מקוואות that allows it is talking about חולין or תרומה. (The מאירי ,ר"ח, and תוספות רי"ד may have also understood that the משנה in מקוואות is specifically referring to תרומה, and our גמרא allows סל וגרגותני only because there is no such thing as a סל וגרגותני that will have a narrow opening.)

2.     The גמרא brings that רבי יהושע said בושני מדבריכם ב"ש. When someone explained to him the reasoning for ב"ש he went to the קבר of בית שמאי and asked for מחילה. There is an interesting discussion in the פּוסקים whether this was necessary. See the רמ"א in חו"מ סיּמן ת"כ סעיף ל"ח who says that anyone who speaks about שוכני עפר must go to their grave and ask מחילה. However, see the מגן אברהם in או"ח סימן תר"ו ס"ק ז who brings from the כנסת הגדולה that this requirement is only if you insulted the person while they were alive and they subsequently died. However, if you insulted the person after death, you don’t need to go to their קבר. The חיד"א in פתח עינים asks on this מגן אברהם from our סוגיא where presumably בית שמאי was already נפטר when רבי יהושע made his comment and yet he still went to his grave. He answers that you must say that בית שמאי must have been alive when the comments were made and was נפטר later. However, see the שלטי גבורים in בבא מציעא, דף ל"ד בדפּי הרי"ף who quotes רבינו יחיאל that says what רבי יהושע did was only לפנים משורת הדין.