Resources for Taanis daf 29

Rabbi Yitzchok Gutterman

1. The גמרא tells us that at the time of the destruction of the first בית המקדש, the Babylonians first started the fire on the ninth of אב but most of the בית המקדש only burned on the tenth of אב. Then ר’ יוחנן said had he been there at the time, he would have had everyone observe תשעה באב on the tenth of אב. There is a basic question here: the משנה said that both בתי מקדש were destroyed on תשעה באב. The פּסוקים the גמרא brings are only describing בית ראשון. What happened during בית שני? Was it also burned partially on the ninth but mostly on the tenth or was it mostly burned on the ninth? See the גבורת ארי who is unsure but at the end proves that it must be that most of בית שני burned on the ninth of אב. If that is true, everyone should agree that the fast nowadays was rightfully instituted on the ninth of אב since we always follow the dates of חורבן בית שני (as is with שבעה עשר בתמוז). Accordingly, ר' יוחנן’s comment about what he would have done during בית ראשון would result in no difference, even לשיטתו. However, the גבורת ארי explains a possible נפקא מינא in that the fast of תשעה באב would have been a lower level fast day. We have a גמרא in ר"ה דף י"ח that says regarding all fast days one shouldn’t need to fast except for תשעה באב since both בתי מקדש were destroyed on that day. According to ר' יוחנן, the tragedies really happened on different days and תשעה באב would therefore have been like the other minor fasts.

There is another fascinating question on this גמרא: there is a famous שיטה of ר’ יוחנן (in בבא קמא דף כ"ב) who holds אשו משום חיצו. This means (based on the נימוקי יוסף‘s explanation there) that when you light a fire and it spreads for miles and burns for days, we consider that all the damage occurred from the moment you lit the original fire. Accordingly, why would ר’ יוחנן say that he would have been גוזר תענית on the tenth instead of the ninth? Doesn’t ר’ יוחנן hold that the only relevant point is when the fire was lit, namely on the ninth? See the זכרון יהונתן in חו"מ סימן ב who answers that the fast is mean to be זכר לחורבן, and that follows what is more apparent to the eye as opposed to when the חורבן took place conceptually.

2. The גמרא says that the laundry workers of רב’s house had no work to do during the week of תשעה באב. See the ר"ן who proves from here that any item ever laundered cannot be freshly used including tablecloths, towels, bed sheets, etc.

3. The גמרא brings a מחלוקת regarding whether one can wash clothes during שבוע שחל בו תשעה באב even if he/she doesn’t plan to wear them until a later date. In attempting to answer a proof from our משנה, the גמרא explains that our משנה only allowed washing clothes (on Thursday) because it was talking about a case where you only have one shirt. We find a similar dispensation regarding חול המועד. One could ask the following question: תוספות on this עמוד tells us that you can wash children’s clothes on חול המועד. This assumes they only have one shirt as they are constantly soiling their clothes. If the היתר of washing when you only have one shirt applies to שבוע שחל בו just as it does for חול המועד, wouldn’t רב ‘s laundry workers have been busy washing children’s clothing during the week of תשעה באב? More fundamentally, see the גבורת ארי who does not understand the comparison made by the גמרא at all; One can wash children’s clothes on חול המועד because the prohibition of washing is in order that you not postpone laundry until חול המועד. If you only have one shirt, it wouldn’t help to have it washed before יו"ט. By contrast, we can’t wash clothes on שבוע שחל בו because of אבילות. He does not provide an answer. למעשה, the שולחן ערוך in סימן תקנ"א סעיף ג explicitly forbids washing clothes on שבוע שחל בו even if one only has one shirt. However, the רמ"א in in סעיף י"ד allows washing children’s clothes but the לבוש (brought by the משנה ברורה) gives an explanation other than the one brought in תוספות; It is rather because there is no שמחה in laundering children’s clothes.

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