Part 5a - Rav Yosef Baruch Hoffner part 1
The following is a translation of an article entitled “Waiting Between Meat and Dairy According to Minhag Ashkenaz”. The article appears in Yerushaseinu, vol. 1, 2006. Rav Hoffner is Rav in Beis Refuah “Mayanei Hayeshua” in Bnei Brak. The translation has been modified by this author.
The foundation of Minhag Ashkenaz follows our rabbanim, both rishonim and acharonim, and it is in their paths that we follow, as we have accepted from our forefathers.
One of these customs, that has been followed by entire generations - including thousands of rabbanim and dayanim in Western Europe - is the custom of waiting three hours between eating meat and dairy.
Reviews of the topic have been incomplete, [leading people to think that] the minhag of waiting three hours is a custom for boors, for those that are not b’nei Torah, God forbid. In the past generation there have been many individual rabbis who have told their students not to follow this custom; however, this is only a small minority from the rabbis of Ashkenaz over hundreds of years, and even among those that say not to follow the custom, many have stated explicitly that the reason for this is that they do not know its source.
However, even if we had no source, we would rely on our earlier rabbanim that followed this custom; regardless, this article is written for those that question the minhag, and with the help of God, we will explain some of the sources related to this topic.
When it comes to the custom of waiting three hours, we must explain two matters:
1. Where do we know that one may wait three hours between meat and milk? The Shulchan Aruch and Rama (YD 89:1) only discuss waiting six hours and one hour.
2. Since the Maharshal writes that a ben Torah should wait six hours (Yam Shel Shlomo, Chulin 8:9), and the poskim such as the Shach (ibid. 8) and Taz (ibid. 2) cite this, shouldn’t those of Ashkenaz descent, especially b’nei Torah, follow this opinion and wait six hours?
The Source for Waiting After Eating Meat
The source for waiting between eating meat and dairy is based on a Gemara in Chulin (105a), which states, “Rav Chisda says, if one ate meat, he may not eat cheese afterwards; [however, if one ate] cheese, he may eat meat afterwards.” Additionally, the Gemara records the following: Mar Ukva says, “I am, with regard to this matter, like vinegar, son of wine, with respect to Father, i.e., my practice is inferior to that of my father. As Father, if he were to eat meat at this time, would not eat cheese until tomorrow at this time. But as for me, only at this meal, during which I ate meat, do I not eat cheese; at a different meal on the same day I will eat cheese.”
(Translation from https://www.sefaria.org/Chullin.105a.9?lang=bi)
The Rishonim argue about the meaning of Mar Ukva’s statement “only at this meal, during which I ate meat, do I not eat cheese; at a different meal on the same day I will eat cheese”.
Tosefos (ibid. L’seudasa) writes: This does not mean meals like we have, one in the morning and one in the evening, rather, it means even immediately; if you clear off the table and bentch (i.e., recite grace after meals), it is permitted, as the rabbis do not argue.
Tosefos mean that one does not need to wait a specific time period after eating meat to consume dairy. Rather, we must make sure not to eat meat and dairy within the same meal. If you completely conclude one meal of meat, within the next meal, you may eat dairy immediately (i.e., no waiting is required). In addition to Tosefos, this is also the opinion of the Halachos Gedolos, Rabbainu Tam, and the Ra’avya, cited by Rosh and Hagahos Ashrei (Chulin 88:5)
Rosh himself, however, argues and is of the opinion that when the Gemara says “a different meal”, it means the time a person is accustomed to eat; from the time of one’s morning meal until the evening meal. One may not eat dairy before this amount of time has passed since we do not find anyone who allows less than this time span, and Rif agrees to this. However, neither of them list a time frame in hours.
Rambam (Ma’achalos Ha’asuros 9:28), who follows the opinions of Rosh and Rif, is the first to provide a time, when he writes that between meat and dairy one should wait “approximately six hours” (כמו שש שעות). The Mechaber and Rama also argue with regard to these opinions (Yoreh Deah 89:1). The Mechaber writes that if one eats meat, even fowl (which is rabbinic in nature), you should not partake of dairy until six hours have elapsed.
Rama cites three opinions:
1. After a meat meal has concluded, and one has recited Birchas Hamazon (Grace after Meals), as well as performing kinuach and hadacha, it is permitted to consume dairy.
2. The custom of the average Jew (in Poland and surrounding areas - והמנהג הפשוט במדינות אלו), is to wait one hour before partaking of dairy.
3. There are those who are careful to wait six hours between meat and dairy, and it is proper to follow this custom (וכן נכון לעשות).
The first opinion is that of the Rishonim (Tosefos, etc.); the third opinion follows the Mechaber (Rosh, Rif).
Where, however, does the second opinion of waiting one hour come from? It does not follow any of the Rishonim! The Gra writes that the custom of waiting one hour is based on the Zohar in Parshas Mishpatim. Pri Chadash writes similarly.
At this juncture, we have yet to find a source for waiting three hours; however, we can say confidently that waiting three hours does not contradict Rama's first two opinions. Nevertheless, it would appear that waiting three hours is not in accord with the Rif and Rosh.
The Source for Waiting Three Hours
Pri Chadash (cited earlier in footnote 2), follows the opinion of the Rambam and Mechaber that one should wait six hours between meat and dairy. However, he adds the following point: “The six hour time period is לאו דוקא (‘not specific’, or ‘not necessarily’); for example, on a short winter day, if you ate meat in the morning, you would be permitted to eat cheese in the afternoon. If you ate meat in the afternoon, you would be permitted to eat cheese in the evening. [In these situations this is allowed] even though there is only approximately four hours between each meal. Everyone agrees to this as the Gemara says that it is only in this particular meal that one is not allowed to partake of dairy, but in another meal, the implication is that one is allowed to. The Gemara does not make any distinction between short days and long days'' (i.e., the shortest day works for all other days - as will be explained in the following paragraph). [3]
Sefer Mizmor L’Dovid (Rabbi Dovid Pardo of Venice, 1719-1792, author of Chasdei Dovid on the Tosefta) adds to the words of the Pri Chadash: “...from this (Pri Chadash) arose the custom in many communities to wait three hours, even in the summer (i.e., when the day is very long) [following the logic that] if it would be the winter (i.e., a short day), or if it is time for the next meal [the three hour time period would be sufficient] - since the Rabbis did not make a distinction (i.e., once it is permitted on the shortest day, it is permitted on other days - “lo plug”). Or we can say that once it is permitted to wait [three hours] in the winter, we do not need to extend the time (during other parts of the year) since the flavor in one's mouth dissipates after this time on the shortest days (one need not wait any longer on lengthier days). They (those that wait three hours) have something to rely on.”
We see from here that the Minhag Ashkenaz custom of waiting three hours between meat and dairy, not only does not contradict Rama and the Rishonim that Rama is following, but based on the words of the Pri Chadash and Mizmor L’Dovid, it even fits with the opinions of Rif and Rosh!
(The following two paragraphs are in a footnote):
Birkei Yosef (Chidah - Shiurei Bracha 89:3) cites that the Rabbis of Izmir discounted the words of the Pri Chadash; however, he answers their challenges in a nice manner, even though he specifically is of the opinion that one should wait six hours.
Birkei Yosef also cites Minchas Yaakov in his sefer Soles L’Mincha who quotes Pri Chadash, and then writes as follows: “Even though his words do not fit well with the poskim, nevertheless, one who is lenient will not lose since [waiting longer] is just a stringency of those who are extra careful. Even according to the Rambam who writes that one should wait “approximately/around six hours” (כמו שש שעות) implies that the time period is לאו דוקא, and one who wants to be stringent, may do so.”