Kiddushin - Daf 32
- Machlokes if the funding for כיבוד is משל בן or משל אב
The Gemara asks who pays for the parents’ needs. Rav Yehudah says: משל בן – it is funded from the son’s assets. Rav Nosson bar Oshaya says: משל אב – from the father’s assets (and the son’s obligation is only physically providing their needs). The Gemara rules they are funded by the father’s assets. This is challenged from a Baraisa, which teaches that כיבוד אב even involves חסרון כיס – a monetary loss (indicating that it should come from the son’s assets)!? The Gemara answers: לביטול מלאכה – the son could sustain a loss from the interruption of his work while caring for his parents. This is further challenged from Rebbe Eliezer’s describing the extent of כיבוד אב: כדי שיטול ארנקי ויזרקנו לים בפניו ואינו מכלימו – to the point that if [his father] takes a wallet and throws it into the sea in his presence, he does not shame [his father]. If the son need not suffer any monetary loss, then the father must be throwing his own wallet, so why should the son care? The Gemara answers that it refers to where the son stands to inherit this wallet. Similarly, Rav Huna once tore silks in the presence of his son Rabbah to test him if he would get angry. The Gemara proceeds to analyze Rav Huna’s actions.
- האב והרב שמחל על כבודו, והנשיא והמלך שמחל על כבודו
Rav Chisda said that a father can waive his son’s obligation to honor him. However, הרב שמחל על כבודו אין כבודו מחול – a teacher who waives his right to honor, his honor is not waived. Rav Yosef said even a teacher’s honor can be waived, as the passuk says: וה' הולך לפניהם יומם – and Hashem went before them by day, indicating that Hashem (the Ultimate Teacher) waived His honor by leading the nation. Rava objected that Hashem is different: עלמא דיליה הוא ותורה דיליה היא – the world is His, and the Torah is His, מחיל ליה ליקריה – so He can waive His honor, הכא תורה דיליה היא – but here, regarding a teacher, is the Torah his that he can waive the honor which is due him because of the Torah’s honor?! Rava later retracted: אין תורה דיליה היא – Indeed, the Torah is his, as the passuk says: ובתורתו יהגה יומם ולילה – and about his Torah he ponders day and night. Later, Rav Ashi says that all agree that a נשיא cannot waive his honor. This is refuted from an incident in which Rabban Gamliel, the Nasi, served drinks to several Sages at his son’s wedding feast. Rebbe Eliezer did not allow Rabban Gamliel to serve him, but Rebbe Yehoshua did. He explained that Avraham himself, who was greater than Rabban Gamliel and the greatest of his generation, waited on the angels, who he thought were Arabs. Rebbe Tzadok added that a better proof that a Nasi can waive his honor is that Hashem Himself is involved in providing food for all people. Rather, Rav Ashi said that even if the Nasi’s honor can be waived, the King’s honor cannot, based on a passuk.
- Standing in honor of the elderly
A Baraisa states about the passuk: "מפני שיבה תקום" – before an old man you shall rise, יכול אפילו מפני זקן אשמאי – one might think the obligation applies even for a sinful and ignorant old man, so the Torah also writes "זקן", and אין זקן אלא חכם – the word “zakein” only means a sage, based on a passuk. Rebbe Yose Haglili says "זקן" means זה שקנה חכמה – he who has acquired wisdom, and the Gemara will explain that he holds one must even stand for a young scholar. At the end of the Baraisa, Issi ben Yehudah says: אפילו כל שיבה במשמע – the passuk implies every old man, including a זקן אשמאי. The Gemara will say the halachah follows Issi ben Yehudah. The Baraisa derives several other halachos of standing for the elderly, including that it applies במקום שיש הידור – where there is honor given by standing, and not at a distance, nor in a bathhouse, etc.
