Gittin - Daf 17
- If the Roman galus is better or worse than the Persian galus
The Gemara relates that Amoraim were visiting Rabbah bar bar Channah, and while they were speaking, a Persian man came and took away their lamp (it was a Persian holiday, on which they only allowed lights in their temples). Rabbah cried out: רחמנא או בטולך או בטולא דבר עשו – Merciful One! Shelter us either in Your Shadow or in the shadow of Eisav’s descendants, who do not mistreat us as the Persians do. The Gemara challenges the implication that the Romans (descendants of Eisav) treat Jews better from a Baraisa: "אלקים הבין דרכה והוא ידע את מקומה" – Hashem understood the Torah’s way, and knew its place, which means: יודע הקדוש ברוך הוא בישראל שאין יכולין לקבל גזירת ארומיים – Hashem knew that Yisroel could not bear the Romans’ decrees, עמד והגלה אותם לבבל – so He rose and exiled them to Bavel instead. Clearly, Jews would be better treated in Bavel than Rome!? The Gemara answers: הא מקמי דניתו חברי לבבל הא לבתר דאתו חברי לבבל – [The passuk] refers to the period before the Persians came to Bavel, when Jews were treated relatively well; [Rabbah bar bar Channah] was talking about after the Persians came to Bavel.
- The requirement of a date in a get: because of בת אחותו or פירות?
The next Mishnah states that the writing and signing of a get must take place on the same day. ביום ונחתם בלילה - If it was written by day and signed that night (halachically the next day), the Tanna Kamma says the get is passul, and Rebbe Shimon says it is valid. He agrees that all other predated documents are invalid, because they can be used to collect with improperly. Amoraim explain why a date is required in a get. Rebbe Yochanan says: משום בת אחותו – Because one might use an undated get to save his sister’s daughter who is his wife. If she commits adultery, incurring the death penalty, her husband may seek to protect her by writing an undated get, and falsely claim she was divorced before the adultery. Reish Lakish says: משום פירות – Because of the produce of his wife’s property. The husband, who receives the produce of his wife’s property, might try continuing to sell it after their divorce, and the undated get would enable him to falsely claim the divorce was after their sale. Reish Lakish does not accept Rebbe Yochanan’s reason, because זנות לא שכיחא – illicit relations, in front of witnesses and forewarned, is uncommon. Rebbe Yochanan does not accept Reish Lakish’s reason, because he holds the husband receives produce until the get is given, so dating its writing would not solve the issue.
- Does the husband retain rights to his wife’s produce until the time of the get’s writing or signing?
The Gemara wonders how Rebbe Yochanan, who says a get must be dated because of a concern for adultery, will explain why Rebbe Shimon considers a predated get valid. It answers that Rebbe Yochanan agrees that Rebbe Shimon was unconcerned about adultery and held dating gittin was required to protect her produce from being improperly sold, as Reish Lakish maintained. The Gemara then explains how Reish Lakish interprets the machlokes between the Rabbonon and Rebbe Shimon, who both hold dating is to protect her produce: פירי דמשעת כתיבה ועד שעת חתימה איכא בינייהו – the status of produce from the time of writing [the get] until the time of signing is the point of contention between them. The Rabbonon say the husband retains rights to produce until the get’s signing, and if she presents a get dated by its earlier writing, she will improperly recover what was sold after the writing (and before the signing). Rebbe Shimon holds the husband’s rights end at the get’s writing, so following the date of the writing will not cause a loss to any purchaser.
