Nedarim - Daf 52
- Flavor imparted from a food forbidden by neder
The Mishnah states: הנודר מן הבשר מותר ברוטב ובקיפה ור' יוסי אוסר – One who vows from meat is permitted in its gravy and small bits of meat, but Rebbe Yose forbids them. Rebbe Yehudah sought to bring a proof to Rebbe Yose from an incident in which Rebbe Tarfon forbade eggs which were cooked with meat that had been forbidden by a neder. They responded to Rebbe Yehudah: כן הדבר – It is true that Rebbe Tarfon forbade the eggs, but he would not do so in all cases. אימתי – When is this so? בזמן שיאמר בשר זה עלי – Only when he says, “This meat is forbidden to me,” שהנודר מן הדבר ונתערב באחר, אם יש בו בנותן טעם אסור – because one who vows from something [specific] and it became mixed with something else, if there is enough of the forbidden substance to give flavor to the entire mixture, it is forbidden. The Ran explains that by prohibiting a specific piece of meat, as opposed to forbidding meat in general, he has made that meat a forbidden substance to himself, and even the flavor it imparts is forbidden to him.
- If whey is included in a neder from milk
The Mishnah on 51b taught: הנודר מן החלב מותר בקום, ור' יוסי אוסר – One who vows from milk is permitted in whey, but Rebbe Yose forbids it. The Mishnah adds that all agree that one who vows from whey is permitted in milk. The Gemara on this Daf poses a contradiction from a Baraisa: מן העדשים אסור באשישים, ור' יוסי מתיר – If one vows from lentils, he is permitted in honey-fried lentils, but Rebbe Yose permits it. The Ran explains that there is no contradiction in the Rabbonon, because although they permit whey as a substance distinct from milk, the two types of lentils are the same item prepared differently. The Gemara’s question is directed at Rebbe Yose, who forbids even whey in a neder from milk. The Gemara answers that each Tanna follows the common usage of the word “milk” in their locale: in the Rabbonon’s locale, the word milk was not used to refer to whey, but in Rebbe Yose’s locale, they referred to whey as קומא דחלבא – whey of milk. Therefore, Rebbe Yose said that even one who vows from milk is forbidden in whey.
- אלו דוקא או שאני טועם דוקא
The Mishnah states: הנודר מן הענבים מותר ביין – One who vows from grapes is permitted in wine, מן הזיתים מותר בשמן – if he vows from olives, he is permitted in oil.אמר קונם זיתים וענבים אלו שאיני טועם – But if he said, “Konam these olives or grapes regarding my tasting,” אסור בהן וביוצא מהן – he is forbidden in them and in what comes out of them (i.e., oil and wine). The Gemara inquires which of the two phrases used in the neder of the Mishnah prohibits even its juices. Is the critical element the word "אלו" – these, with which he forbids specific fruit (like in the previous Mishnah), or is the critical element "שאיני טועם" – regarding my tasting? The Gemara proves, from the Mishnah above which taught that Rebbe Tarfon forbade eggs cooked together with meat forbidden by a neder of “this meat,” that specifying an item is sufficient to forbid its juices. The Rosh points out that the Gemara here equates flavor emerging from an item to the juice which exude from it. The Gemara concedes that specifying forbids even its juices but asks if the term “regarding my tasting” might also forbid juices.
