Nedarim - Daf 29
- קדושה שבהן להיכן הלכה
On the previous Daf, Ulla had said that when one declares kedushah on saplings until they are cut, the kedushah comes off automatically at that time. Rav Hamnuna asked him: קדושה שבהן להיכן הלכה - where did their kedushah go, i.e., with what mechanism did they lose their kedushah? ומה אילו אמר לאשה היום את אשתי ולמחר אי את אשתי - And what if one said to [his wife], “Today you are my wife and tomorrow you are not my wife,” i.e., the marriage should dissolve on its own, מי נפקא בלא גט - does she leave without a get? Surely not! How, then, can Ulla say that the kedushah goes off automatically? Rava responded to Rav Hamnuna that he cannot compare marriage, which is קדושת הגוף - physical sanctity (meaning her physical being is married to him) and קדושת דמים - monetary sanctity, such as the neder of our Mishnah in which the saplings’ value is kadosh. Although kedushas haguf cannot end on its own, kedushas damim can.
- Abaye’s proof that even kedushas haguf can end on its own
Abaye responded that it can be proven that even kedushas haguf can end on its own, from a Baraisa which states: שור זה עולה כל ל' יום ולאחר ל' יום שלמים - If one said, “This ox should be an olah for thirty days, and after thirty days it should be a shelamim,” then after the thirty days of being an olah it does become a shelamim. From the fact that the kedushas haguf of olah ends after thirty days (for otherwise, it could not become a shelamim), it is evident that even kedushas haguf can end at a predetermined time. When the Gemara suggests that perhaps the Baraisa is speaking where he was merely makdish the animal with kedushas damim of olah, the Gemara says this cannot be, because the next case of this Baraisa states: לאחר ל' יום עולה ומעכשיו שלמים - If he says, “After thirty days it should be an olah, and from now, a shelamim,” then that is what happens. Since this second case does not appear to add anything new, it must be to show that one of the cases speaks of kedushas haguf and that it can come off on its own.
- The chiddush of לאחר ל' יום שלמים הוי
The Gemara suggests that the above Baraisa should disprove Bar Padda’s position on the previous Daf, that saplings which were consecrated “until they are cut” need to be redeemed after they are cut since the kedushah does not end on its own. Rav Pappa answers that Bar Padda would say the second case of the Baraisa is teaching something else entirely: אם לא אמר מעכשיו שלמים לאחר ל' יום עולה הוי - If he had not said “it should be a shelamim from now,” it would it have become an olah after thirty days, and the Baraisa is coming to teach that the kedushah of olah can take effect after thirty days, even if he attempted to retract his olah consecration prior to the thirtieth day. Although there is an opinion that in a parallel case of marriage, where one gives a women kiddushin money and says, “התקדשי לי לאחר שלשים יום” – “Become married to me after thirty days,” she can retract during the thirty days, הכא שאני דאמירתו לגבוה כמסירתו להדיוט - here is different, because a declaration to hekdesh is like a transfer to an ordinary person. The Ran elaborates that a verbal declaration for hekdesh is even more potent than an ordinary acquisition, for we treat this declaration like a transfer made with the stipulation that after thirty days it will take effect from now, in which case neither side can retract in the interim.