Kesubos - Daf 42
- Machlokes if אנסת ופיתית את בתי is making a monetary claim or a claim for the kenas
It was taught in a Mishnah in Shevuos: If one says to another, "אנסת ופיתית את בתי" – “You violated my daughter,” or “You seduced my daughter,” and the defendant responds that he did not, and the father says, "משביעך אני" – “I make you swear regarding this,” and the defendant says, “Amen,” and afterwards the defendant admits that he violated or seduced her, and that he had sworn falsely, he is chayav to pay the claim, and an additional fifth and to bring an asham. Rebbe Shimon exempts him, שאינו משלם קנס על פי עצמו – for the din is that one does not pay a kenas by his own admission. Rashi explains that one is only chayav a kenas if he is convicted through the testimony of witnesses, not if he himself admits to the crime. Therefore, since he would not have been chayav the kenas even if had admitted to the violation or seduction, his denial is not considered כפירת ממון – a denial of a monetary chiyuv. The Chochomim said to him, אף על פי שאינו משלם קנס על פי עצמו אבל משלם בשת ופגם על פי עצמו – Even though he does not pay kenas by his own admission, he does pay for בושת ופגם by his own admission. Since his denial has monetary consequences, he is chayav an asham for his false oath. The Gemara on the next Daf will explain why Rebbe Shimon disagrees.
- "אנסת ופיתית את בתי והעמדתיך בדין ונתחייבת לי ממון"
Abaye asked his Rebbe, Rabbah: One who says to another, "אנסת ופיתית את בתי והעמדתיך בדין ונתחייבת לי ממון" – “You violated,” or “You seduced,” “my daughter, and I sued you in Beis Din, and you were obligated to pay me money,” referring to the fifty-shekel kenas, and the defendant denies it all, ונשבע והודה – and he swore, and then later confessed that he swore falsely, what is the law according to Rebbe Shimon? כיון דעמד בדין ממונא הואי ומיחייב עליה קרבן שבועה – Do we say that since he sued in Beis Din and was awarded the kenas, it is considered “money” and he is chayav to bring an asham for a false oath, or do we say that it is still treated as a kenas and he does not bring an asham? Rabbah answered, ממונא הוי ומיחייב עליה קרבן שבועה – It is considered “money” and he is chayav to bring a korban for making a false oath. After Abaye challenges Rabbah, Rabbah revises his answer, that in fact Rebbe Shimon does not treat a kenas after conviction as money, and when he said that Rebbe Shimon does treat it as money, להורישו לבניו – it was with respect to bequeathing it to his sons. Rashi explains that if the father were to die after being awarded the kenas, but before he collected it, the kenas would go to the brothers and not to the victim herself.
- The kenas after conviction that is treated as “money” and bequeathed to the sons refers to other fines
Abaye challenged Rabbah’s response that the sons collect the payments if the father died before he collected them, from our Mishnah which explicitly states: Rebbe Shimon says: אם לא הספיקה לגבות עד שמת האב הרי הן של עצמה – If she did not yet collect her payments before the father died, they belong to her. Rava said: Rabbah and Rav Yosef had difficulty with this matter for twenty-two years, and it was not resolved until Rav Yosef sat at the head of the Academy after Rabbah’s death and resolved it. He explained that in the case of violation and seduction it is different, for the passuk states: "ונתן האיש השכב עמה לאבי הנערה חמשים כסף" – The man who lay with her shall “give” the father of the girl fifty silver pieces. לא זיכתה תורה לאב אלא משעת נתינה – The Torah did not entitle the father to the kenas until the moment it is actually given to him. When Rabbah said that a fine after conviction is “money” with respect to bequeathing it to his sons, בשאר קנסות – it was with respect to other fines.
